Kia Optima Forums banner

21 - 38 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
2013 Kia Optima 2.0T
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter #21
I reviewed all the formulas to find what was wrong with the fuel consumption...
1) Mass Fuel Flow has been updated to use 14.71 instead of 14.65. The result was overestimated by 0.5%.
2) Fuel Instant has been updated to to 1.68 instead of 1.65 pounds. The result was overestimated by 2.0%.
3) Fuel Instant must be compensated using a coefficient of thermal expansion...I will work on that to improve the result.
4) I learned that our speedometer might be off by 4%...

The layout project is interesting. Don't give up!

I use VGate Multi-Scan Tool and no problem so far.
Mini Vgate ELM327 Bluetooth ODB2 II Car Auto Diagnostics Scanner w Power Switch | eBay
 

·
Most Clever
2015 Kia Optima 2015 Optima SXL Turbo
Joined
·
145 Posts

·
Registered
2013 Kia Optima 2.0T
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
Update:
- Fuel Instant: Compensated gasoline weight according to the ambient temperature.
- Fuel MPG Instant: New formula. US version.
- Torque (At the wheels): New formula based on car speed, tire circumference and crank shaft speed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,405 Posts
I also recommend the OBDLink LX. It has the fastest scan rate for a BT device.
I also have one of those cheap Mini-Elm adapters.

The LX is far faster. I can certainly see the difference in graphs and screen updates.
If you want the fastest, real time PID scanning, you need a direct wired USB type
I use the LX as well, due to it's PID latency while keeping the BT function without wires.

K5Canada, this is going to be very useful information to our tuning community. There should be some form of nationwide tune software available to tuners aside from what is on the market now. And therefore being able to data log some of these VE tables will become very useful.

Wonder if you could come up with any way to see some of the VVT cam phase PID's? To be able to read oil pressure to the cam oil control valves which alter our cam phase/timing could be equally as useful for tuning.
 

·
Most Clever
2015 Kia Optima 2015 Optima SXL Turbo
Joined
·
145 Posts
got sidetracked with LED mods - coming back to this now...

What would be useful is for members to say what gauges they need displayed - I can create a new thread if needed - but seems sensible here ? - please advise K5Canada
 

·
Registered
2013 Kia Optima 2.0T
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
K5Canada, this is going to be very useful information to our tuning community. There should be some form of nationwide tune software available to tuners aside from what is on the market now. And therefore being able to data log some of these VE tables will become very useful.

Wonder if you could come up with any way to see some of the VVT cam phase PID's? To be able to read oil pressure to the cam oil control valves which alter our cam phase/timing could be equally as useful for tuning.
Please note that the VE and BSFC curves are "hardcoded" based on the numbers Red gave to the community. I have no way to compute these using other sensors (new cams will not be taken into account). On the other hand, every mod that impact the "Mass Air Flow" or "Mass Fuel Flow" should be detected by the formulas (IC, air filter, premium gasoline, intake temperature, elevation, new turbo, etc.).

If the community is interested, I could invest more time to compensate the HP/Torque values to sea level (A kind of SAE compensation). Otherwise, it is difficult to compare your own numbers with other members.

---------- Post added at 08:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 AM ----------

got sidetracked with LED mods - coming back to this now...

What would be useful is for members to say what gauges they need displayed - I can create a new thread if needed - but seems sensible here ? - please advise K5Canada
If you want to post your stuff here, that's fine with me. If you choose to create another thread, we should cross-reference it from here to get maximum visibility.
 

·
Super Moderator
2012 Kia Optima
Joined
·
3,486 Posts
Really interesting stuff. Subbed
 

·
Most Clever
2015 Kia Optima 2015 Optima SXL Turbo
Joined
·
145 Posts
Please note that the VE and BSFC curves are "hardcoded" based on the numbers Red gave to the community. I have no way to compute these using other sensors (new cams will not be taken into account). On the other hand, every mod that impact the "Mass Air Flow" or "Mass Fuel Flow" should be detected by the formulas (IC, air filter, premium gasoline, intake temperature, elevation, new turbo, etc.).

If the community is interested, I could invest more time to compensate the HP/Torque values to sea level (A kind of SAE compensation). Otherwise, it is difficult to compare your own numbers with other members.

---------- Post added at 08:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 AM ----------



If you want to post your stuff here, that's fine with me. If you choose to create another thread, we should cross-reference it from here to get maximum visibility.

i'm finding that the ambient temp calcs are -2 degrees low - I strapped my S4 (it has sensors) next to the temp sensor and the S4 was +2 away from car sensor ...as the S4 got hot it increased to +4.

S4 calibration over months says that it is 99% accurate for 10 minutes - after that SOC heat affects readings. - what have you found

---------- Post added at 03:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:56 AM ----------

got sidetracked with LED mods - coming back to this now...

What would be useful is for members to say what gauges they need displayed - I can create a new thread if needed - but seems sensible here ? - please advise K5Canada
:BUMP: - we need this feedback buddies please

---------- Post added at 04:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 AM ----------

....If the community is interested, I could invest more time to compensate the HP/Torque values to sea level (A kind of SAE compensation)...
So my thought is to add ftabovesl to the car profile, create a constant and calculate from this - no entry means we default to an average ? - I think it is possible to do - having found the config files and edited other items from the backend and seeing it reflected in app frontend.......thoughts...


also i will post here - if that is ok - I agree lets keep it together until a natural fork occurs (design vs calculations)
 

·
Registered
2013 Kia Optima 2.0T
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter #30
Today, I updated the "Air density" formula to use a constant relative humidity of 50%. The first version assumed it was dry air...and this could introduce an error of 1.5% on the final result.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,405 Posts
Me personally, I'd love to be able to see and data log the following:

For the engine.....
Crank position sensor (to use a reference)
Intake Cam phasing / Exhaust Cam phasing
Injector intitial open, and how long the 12v pwm signal holds it open (peak- hold times)
Ignition timing
Knock retard per cylinder (this used to be available at one point through Hyundai advanced plugin, but I lost those PID's for some reason.
CVVT Oil pressure regulator (oil temps) another value we used to have and now is gone

Transmission:
Solenoid line pressure
Torque Converter lockup
ATF temp
I'd love to know how this eninge calculates and manages torque on demand. What sensors and calculation it uses to basically inhibit the engine from exceeding it's programmed torque values. This is a big one, as until recently tuners have been a little stumped on this one for lower gears I believe.

Turbo related:
Voltage at rest Boost Control Valve (used to set waste gate spec voltage when fully mechanically shut)
Data log the PWM signal sent from the PCM to the Boost Bypass Solenoid or Diverter valve

And I believe we can access a PID for Catalyst Enrichment % signal from the PCM that dumps fuel into the engine once a certain EGT is read before and after the Catylist.

Any of those items would be an amazing upgrade or plugin to Torque which I'm certain our community would gladly pay for. This would allow many of us to learn better how this engine operates and what sort of triggers exist within the software that manages this vehicle.
 

·
Most Clever
2015 Kia Optima 2015 Optima SXL Turbo
Joined
·
145 Posts
Today, I updated the "Air density" formula to use a constant relative humidity of 50%. The first version assumed it was dry air...and this could introduce an error of 1.5% on the final result.
i'll show you my setup - soon .. theme should be yours.pm with your ideas of themes - Photoshop will work
 

·
Registered
2013 Kia Optima 2.0T
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter #33 (Edited)
Major update today...
- Supported the 2.4L platform.
- Improved the 2.0L VE and BSFC curves using 3584 as RPM peek torque value.
- Added the Sea Level Comp formula to compensate HP/Torque to sea level.

P.S I have been unable to test the 2.4L engine. Beta testers requested...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,405 Posts
I just added the BSFC along the horsepower/torque formulas at the crank. Basically, you will need to enter the following formulas to get your virtual dynamometer:

Air Density
IsRpmGT3072
BSFC
T-Intake PR
VE
Volume Air Flow
Mass Air Flow
Mass Fuel Flow
Horsepower (At the crank)
Torque (At the crank)

Let me know if it works, it is so easy to do a typo with this stuff...:)
Great work, it's been a while since I checked in on this forum.

I may suggest you join my Performance group. Majority of members there have and actively use torque pro plus the many plugin available.

We also have several members who are participating in reverse engineering ECU tuning solutions, so if any communications protocols are hampering your efforts, I'm certain they could assist, and YOU may be of assistance to them as well. Logging changes are integral to tuning ;)

On Facebook, Search/Groups - Thetaii Turbo Performance
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,405 Posts
I just added the BSFC along the horsepower/torque formulas at the crank. Basically, you will need to enter the following formulas to get your virtual dynamometer:

Air Density
IsRpmGT3072
BSFC
T-Intake PR
VE
Volume Air Flow
Mass Air Flow
Mass Fuel Flow
Horsepower (At the crank)
Torque (At the crank)

Let me know if it works, it is so easy to do a typo with this stuff...:)
The above formulas shown in the OP will provide this dyno via Torque?

Maybe a youtube instructional video would be helpful here....this is complicated for us computer illiterate folks

If I mess up, it won't kill my car, right lol
 

·
Registered
2013 Nissan HR15DE
Joined
·
2 Posts
image.jpeg

Thanks for K5CANADA..who was inspiring me with his equation

i have some equation that maybe more accurate based on engine load condition and universal for all displacement volume engine,since BSFC very fluctuative based on engine load as picture describe



PID 0104
long name LOAD25
Equation 1-{A:7}


PID 0104
long name LOAD100
Equation {A:0}*{A:1}*{A:2}*{A:3}*{A:4}*{A:5}*{A:6}*{A:7}


PID 0104
Long name LOAD50
Equation {A:7}*(1-val{LOAD100})


PID leave it blank
Long name BSFC25
Equation
val{LOAD25}*(((1-val{IsRpmGT3072})*(1.3167-(0.00016667*[0c])))+(val{IsRpmGT3072}*(0.7+(0.00020833*([0c]-3072)))))


PID leave it blank
Long name BSFC50
val{LOAD50}*(((1-val{IsRpmGT3072})*(0.95086-(0.00015086*[0c])))+(val{IsRpmGT3072}*(0.47+(0.00018462*([0c]-3072)))))


PID leave it blank
Long name BSFC100
Equation
val{LOAD100}*(((1-val{IsRpmGT3072})*(0.53429-(0.00003429*[0c])))+(val{IsRpmGT3072}*(0.425+(0.00007059*([0c]-3072)))))


PID leave it blank
Long name BSFC TOTAL
Equation
val{BSFC25}+val{BSFC50}+val{BSFC100}


PID leave it blank
Long name POWER BY LOAD
Equation
(val{Mass Fuel Flow}*60)/val{BSFC TOTAL}
 

·
Registered
2013 Kia Optima 2.0T
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
Quite interesting, I'm gonna take a look at these new formulas! I was aware of the limitation of my BSFC formula but I was not sure how to improve it...:rolleyes:

I still have the car but did not login very often on the site in 2016. Today, I received a notification regarding some hacking on the site and had to reset my password...
 
21 - 38 of 38 Posts
Top