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POB45 - Hybrid Battery Voltage Sense "C" Circuit Error? (2017 Optima PHEV)

4259 Views 25 Replies 5 Participants Last post by  ChrisInTX
Our 2017 Optima PHEV just turned on the HEV warning light (solid yellow triangle with
HEV and exclamation point). The Kia app says:
Powertrain
POB45 - Hybrid Battery Voltage Sense "C" Circuit

"Possible condition(s) with your Battery Management System
has been detected. KIA recommends a full system check when convenient."


Just wondering if anybody had ran into this error message before and what the resolution was? We've got an appointment to drop it off tomorrow for a check, but I wanted to know how hard I should push for a loaner vehicle.... (the last HEV warning light turned out to be only a burnt out fuse...but that was a different error code/message...)

Thanks,
Jay
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I've not seen that message as I have only owned my PHEV for a few months now, but please keep us up to date on what the dealer tells you.
Drove it to the dealer the next day, the HEV warning light had gone out, but the check engine light was still on. The "Hybrid" guy wasn't in that day, so they asked me to bring it back the next day. The next day the check engine light had cleared itself, but they pulled the code from the history and cleared the codes, and told me to bring it back if they re-appeared.
Day after that the car threw a different code and went into "blinking green car/arrow" emergency driving mode. The code now was: "U1116 Lost communication with EWP". This is a code we had seen before (5 months ago), and the dealer said a fuse had blown, they replaced the fuse and cleared the code, but now it's back. Not sure if it's related to the previous code that cleared itself or not (electric water pump and BMS are somewhat different systems), but the car is at the dealer now.
Update: Dealer is replacing the EWP (electric water pump), gave us a rental. Guess that fuse blow 5 months ago wasn't just the fuse ;>
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Update: Dealer called, the electric water pump was replaced, we picked up the car (21 days later...). BUT, on the way home, my wife was using the "Charge" mode to charge the battery up a little (came back from the dealer with no charge) and the check engine light popped up, with the same POB45 Hybrid Battery Voltage Sense "C" Circuit error message as before. Guess we know what we will be doing tomorrow morning....
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That sucks that you have to take it back to the dealer immediately after picking it up.
Seems that some dealers just can't handle working on hybrids.
That sucks that you have to take it back to the dealer immediately after picking it up.
Seems that some dealers just can't handle working on hybrids.
In all fairness to the dealer, it appears to be two separate (and possibly unrelated) problems that just happen to be happening at the same time. The water pump they replaced had surfaced as a blown fuse 5 months ago, and the BMS error appears to be intermitant and self clearing, but we do want to make sure it's addressed before the warranty expires....
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Got the vehicle back from the dealer (18 days later....) They had problems replicating the issue and called us back a few times so I could tell the "hybrid guy" that the check engine light pops up when the EV range is exhausted and the car is put into "CHARGE" mode.

Their final statement was: "Found Hybrid battery to be too low to charge itself in hybrid mode
(12%). Plugged in vehicle and allowed to charge hybrid battery fully. Cleared codes and test drove vehicle. Vehicle is operating as designed. No further service is recommended at this time."

(They also kept asking if we ever plugged it in to charge and let it "reset".....as if we didn't do 90% of the miles on pure electric, and only hit this check engine light when going farther than the battery only range....)

How they explained it to me was if the battery gets to low, the BMS won't let the engine charge it back up (and throws the DTC P0845 trouble code) and then you have to plug the vehicle in to re-charge the battery.

This seems suspect, as the whole point of a hybrid is that the ICE maintains the hybrid battery so it doesn't get too low, but, the error code had cleared itself both times it occurred, so it may not be a big deal....but it's worrying for the vehicle to just throw random check engine lights related to the battery / BMS, and after the electric water pump failure we were on edge when a new check engine light popped right up on the drive home.
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I call BS on their explanation.
If the system was working as designed why would it intentionally throw a CEL?
How is a vehicle that is operating as designed throw an error light?
I would have asked them to name any other manufacturer that has their vehicles programmed to throw a CEL when the vehicle is operating as designed.
Yep...and last night it popped up another one as my wife drove home from work, this time in full EV mode with 70% battery charge. Back to the dealer tomorrow.....
Speedometer Trip computer Odometer Vehicle Tachometer
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General Update: Dealer didn't want the car over Thanksgiving, and seeing as how it was still driving, told us to bring it back after Thanksgivng. Over the break a new DTC showed up:
"
P0C73 - Powertrain
Motor Electronics Coolant Pump "A" Control Performance. ... The power management control module (HV CPU) performs the role of electronically controlling and regulating the water pump. The code P0C73 is set whenever the HV CPU notifies a failure in the water pump.
"
We also developed an issue where charging from an EVSE (J1772) would be interrupted/stop after 10-30 minutes, and I'd have to re-start it using the Kia access app (or hit the start/stop button inside the car), especially after the vehicle had been driven 20+ miles and the battery was low. And then of course the Kia Access app shows new safety recall:
SC218
-Connecting Rod Bearing can become damaged for different reasons.
-abnormal knocking noise from the engine can occur. (or oil pressure light)
-possible fire if connecting rod punctures the engine block, allowing
engine oil to leak onto the hot exhaust.

So, it's back at the dealership, where they are doing the recall work and have opened a trouble ticket with Nissan USA for help diagnosing the DTCs and other issues.
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So, the dealer didn't fix the issue, sent the car home (without providing proof they even did the SC211 recall work), said they would call me back the next week, and never did. Ileft a message asking for a callback, nothing. I sent a message to Kia America via the website and had zero response after 11 days.

Symptoms continue:
-Check engine light on continuously
-Unable to charge for more than 10 minutes at a time. (Start charging, charging is cut off/fails within 1-10 minutes.
-"Check Hybrid system. Turn off engine" Dash messages w/ HEV ! triangle and check engine light. (Also the red battery icon sometimes.)

Then we got stranded at a park. Car reports battery charge at zero percent (was around 45% when parked) and gives a
"Stop vehicle to charge battery" (square box around a P) error message. The green car icon with the double headed arrow under it is flashing, car won't move.


So, I called for a tow (3 hour wait projected by AAA), called the dealership (who said our service advisor was unavailable, but she could email him for a callback), called Kia America and requested a callback. After about 30 minutes (and 10 tries restarting the car) the battery reported it was at 47% and would let me drive (So I drove it directly to the dealer, where surprise, our service advisor was at his desk.). About this time I got a callback from Kia Corporate, and after they put me on hold to speak with the service manager at the dealership, informed me that the dealership was unable to diagnose the issue because both of their EVSE (chargers) were out of service and they expected it to be 2 weeks before they were back in service.

(This was confirmed to me by the dealer service manager in person, but was the first I had heard of this from them.)

It is clear to me that this dealer does not want to work on the PHEV, so I drove it across town to a different dealer. I'm hoping for better service from them. I am also dissapointed in Kia America, as they never responded to my initial complaint submitted via the web message system, and were not helpful in dealing with the dealer. At this point we are venturing into breach of warranty terrotiroy, as it was at the dealer for the same issue four different times.

My "percent uptime" for this vehicle is 80% (in the shop 20% of the days I've owned it), which should explain my frustration. At this point my wife has also lost faith in the car after it has stranded us three times (brake issue, electric water pump failure, battery at zero issue....). [Althugh the 3rd stranding halfway resolved itself over time...]
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Wow.
Sounds like you got a lemon with one issue after another.
Even worse is how completely useless Kia America has been.
Hope you get your issues resolved so you can get your car done properly or have it repaired long enough to dump it and get something else.
It is clear to me that this dealer does not want to work on the PHEV, so I drove it across town to a different dealer. I'm hoping for better service from them. I am also dissapointed in Kia America, as they never responded to my initial complaint submitted via the web message system, and were not helpful in dealing with the dealer. At this point we are venturing into breach of warranty terrotiroy, as it was at the dealer for the same issue four different times.

My "percent uptime" for this vehicle is 80% (in the shop 20% of the days I've owned it), which should explain my frustration. At this point my wife has also lost faith in the car after it has stranded us three times (brake issue, electric water pump failure, battery at zero issue....). [Althugh the 3rd stranding halfway resolved itself over time...]
Breach of warranty or not, it seems to me you might be Lemon Law territory as well. Depends on the state you are in but worth getting acquainted with your laws on the matter anyway.

As I've experienced myself, some of these dealers are just not good at and/or hesitant towards working on PHEV's. Might be worth looking around for a dealer who has some certifications on it.
Update: Took it to a different (farther away) dealer. Took them two days to diagnose that they wanted to swap the HV battery pack, and another two days to get it approved by Kia Corporate, so we are in a rental car until the work is done. Unfortunately, they said it takes a long time to get the HV battery shipped. (They have two other PHEV's waiting for similar battery replacemetns that have been there for over a month.) So it looks like we will be burning gas for a while. [I also reminded them that it needed the SC218 "engine fire" recall done, but they said they couldn't do it without the HV battery, (perhaps they already have the car apart?) so it would have to be done after the battery swap.]
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Good to hear you have it at a dealer willing to at least take on the issue.
Hopefully, the new battery pack resolves your issues.
Story gets better.... Kia Corporate emailed and about the replacement HV battery pack wrote: "Your part has been moved to the most expedited status and is still currently on backorder. At this time, there is no estimated time of arrival". (This was Feb 9th).

Did I mention that the dealer / Kia USA put us into a Hyundai Elantra rental from Enterprise Rent a Car while they are waiting on the part? (going on 37 days now...).

Today, Enterprise called and said they needed my wife to come in ASAP to swap out the rental vehicle "for her safety" due to a recall.

(I looked it up, doesn't sound quite as bad as the "possible engine fire" one on the Kia...[ "INADEQUATE ADHESION OF THE FRONT WINDSHIELD TO THE VEHICLE STRUCTURE"] )
Neat, so some Elantras can have the windshield fall out. 😁

Is your car back, yet?
Neat, so some Elantras can have the windshield fall out. 😁

Is your car back, yet?
Nope, still in the rental, which is better than nothing, but we would prefer to drive an electric or PHEV while waiting, especially with the current gas prices....
Drove it to the dealer the next day, the HEV warning light had gone out, but the check engine light was still on. The "Hybrid" guy wasn't in that day, so they asked me to bring it back the next day. The next day the check engine light had cleared itself, but they pulled the code from the history and cleared the codes, and told me to bring it back if they re-appeared.
Day after that the car threw a different code and went into "blinking green car/arrow" emergency driving mode. The code now was: "U1116 Lost communication with EWP". This is a code we had seen before (5 months ago), and the dealer said a fuse had blown, they replaced the fuse and cleared the code, but now it's back. Not sure if it's related to the previous code that cleared itself or not (electric water pump and BMS are somewhat different systems), but the car is at the dealer now.
I have the same problem with the blinking green car it all happen after the recall update they did now I have to pay for diagnostic at the dealership
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