I could use help and info. I have a 2017 kia optima that while driving went into limp mode and was towed to a dealership and has a p1326 code. The dealership had it for 2 weeks - every test kia requested pointed to the connective rod bearing being the issue. So they requested more tests till they went to do the Bearance Clearence Test and cylinder 4 had no compression - they are saying my car now does not qualify for the free replacement engine. My car was well taken care of and only has 65,000 miles. This should not have happened - I can not reach KIA corporate. Can I get them to cover this under the warranty? I can't afford a new engine.
P1326
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Well the settlement does specifically say it is about excessive rod bearing wear only unfortunately, see attached.
I'm unsure how to even try to argue a point towards getting the long block covered, anyone else have a clue what she might try? Others have contacted corporate yet their situations were probably different. Luck.
I'm unsure how to even try to argue a point towards getting the long block covered, anyone else have a clue what she might try? Others have contacted corporate yet their situations were probably different. Luck.
Tell them your cousin is a mechanic and he wants to know why #4 cylinder has no compression, so ask them why cylinder 4 has no compression and see what their reply might be. If a general reply e.g. just no compression how do they know it didn't originate from a bottom end failure, unless they dismantle the engine.
They try anything to get out of an engine replacement, and with 65k miles it's ridiculous, engine should have been pulled and replaced in the time the car has been there.
I assume you're not the original owner, and keep in mind that the settlement issue is for one specific reason,, so depending on their response we'll find out if it should be covered, at least in our mind.
Just an FYI- if no compression a valve could be bad, piston could have a hole from a broken spark plug or even a dropped valve, but also if the rod bearing goes south it could cause the rod to break and therefore no compression.
They try anything to get out of an engine replacement, and with 65k miles it's ridiculous, engine should have been pulled and replaced in the time the car has been there.
I assume you're not the original owner, and keep in mind that the settlement issue is for one specific reason,, so depending on their response we'll find out if it should be covered, at least in our mind.
Just an FYI- if no compression a valve could be bad, piston could have a hole from a broken spark plug or even a dropped valve, but also if the rod bearing goes south it could cause the rod to break and therefore no compression.
After discussing with kia customer relations - they are telling me that the dealership had done a bora scope and said cylinder 4 has a 94%leakdown....dealership has told me none of thar- just that they could not complete the BCT test due to no compression in cylinder 4. I am not sure I should be trusting the dealership or kia. Even if there was an issue with cylinder 4 - could it have come from the connective rod bearing and how would I prove it. Engine ran perfect until the p1326 code.
The only way to prove what the problem might be is to have the engine inspected by a reputable mechanic, not some want to be mechanic that's a
glorified lube jockey. I have a borescope and you will be able to inspect the cylinder walls, piston, etc, and the leakdown test indicates the compression
is nil, but the main question remains, what is the reason there is virtually no compression in cylinder 4.
Was there any noise associated with the CEL, or after? Was there oil in the engine? Did the engine seize? Did they pull the pan and check bottom end
(crank, rods)?
When these engines suddenly wear and consume large amounts of oil, cylinders distort, rings wear, and the debris from this wear ends up in and clogs the oil pump, the circulation of oil ceases, bearings wear, then comes the rod knock and then ultimately, seizure, and yes, rings and pistons can fracture, so once again, bottom line, one needs to know the reason for low compression. To do a leakdown test, the engine needs to be turned so that each piston is a TDC, top dead center, so if it seized, they couldn't do a leakdown or compression test.
glorified lube jockey. I have a borescope and you will be able to inspect the cylinder walls, piston, etc, and the leakdown test indicates the compression
is nil, but the main question remains, what is the reason there is virtually no compression in cylinder 4.
Was there any noise associated with the CEL, or after? Was there oil in the engine? Did the engine seize? Did they pull the pan and check bottom end
(crank, rods)?
When these engines suddenly wear and consume large amounts of oil, cylinders distort, rings wear, and the debris from this wear ends up in and clogs the oil pump, the circulation of oil ceases, bearings wear, then comes the rod knock and then ultimately, seizure, and yes, rings and pistons can fracture, so once again, bottom line, one needs to know the reason for low compression. To do a leakdown test, the engine needs to be turned so that each piston is a TDC, top dead center, so if it seized, they couldn't do a leakdown or compression test.
It didn't seize but there was a knocking noise. They told kia they did a leak down test and was 94% but I don't know how they performed the test. Didn't drop pan - I will be hoping there tomorrow to discuss that. Kia doesn't want to budge on decision due to dealership.
Wish you luck, but if push comes to shove, get ahold of the state attorney general if they don't present a good case.
Knocking noise and P1326 should equal another engine, but if you need anything just ask.
Just so you know, in short, a leak down test is nothing other then placing compressed air in the cylinder (100 psi) and see how much stays and leaks out of the cylinder, past piston, rings, valves. If it's past the rings and they are broken, and rod bearing number for number 4 is gone, no question, they need to replace the engine free.
Knocking noise and P1326 should equal another engine, but if you need anything just ask.
Just so you know, in short, a leak down test is nothing other then placing compressed air in the cylinder (100 psi) and see how much stays and leaks out of the cylinder, past piston, rings, valves. If it's past the rings and they are broken, and rod bearing number for number 4 is gone, no question, they need to replace the engine free.
Finally got back from dealership - not much info from them, but back on the phone with kia - finding the leakdown showed air getting past compression ring and oil control rings and tech can feel air from the dipstick tub (I think they meant tube but it says tub) on cylinder 4.
That's were the pressurized air goes, past broken rings or piston into the engine and out any passage it finds.
A normal engine doesn't decide to break rings or damage a piston arbitrarily,especially at the 65k mile mark.
My thought, these engines have design flaws from the get go, cylinders become out of round and the created friction on pistons/rings, and the transfer of the aluminum can build up on the walls and crack the rings.
Did the geniuses state why the rings are broken?
Tell them that the car had a P1326 code that detected a rod knock, and the rod knock falls under the settlement criteria to have the engine replace. Don't care what else is wrong the KSDS picked up a rod knock, period.
Too bad you didn't put a brick on the accelerator pedal and have dinner as when the engine seizes there would be no question.
I'd stay after them and if no satisfaction, like I said before, contact State Attorney General office.
Can't find enough fowl words to condemn Kia for all the aggravation they put the consumer through, when it all originates with nothing more than a poor design with the 2.4 and 2.0T. I'm going to also include the junk 3.3 that has had many lubrication, oil consumption problems, but at least with the 4cyl engines there's a lifetime warranty if you can get the company to replace the junk engine, but unless the 3.3 falls under the 10/100 warranty you're looking at $9-$10 grand to do a replcement with a used junk unit.
A normal engine doesn't decide to break rings or damage a piston arbitrarily,especially at the 65k mile mark.
My thought, these engines have design flaws from the get go, cylinders become out of round and the created friction on pistons/rings, and the transfer of the aluminum can build up on the walls and crack the rings.
Did the geniuses state why the rings are broken?
Tell them that the car had a P1326 code that detected a rod knock, and the rod knock falls under the settlement criteria to have the engine replace. Don't care what else is wrong the KSDS picked up a rod knock, period.
Too bad you didn't put a brick on the accelerator pedal and have dinner as when the engine seizes there would be no question.
I'd stay after them and if no satisfaction, like I said before, contact State Attorney General office.
Can't find enough fowl words to condemn Kia for all the aggravation they put the consumer through, when it all originates with nothing more than a poor design with the 2.4 and 2.0T. I'm going to also include the junk 3.3 that has had many lubrication, oil consumption problems, but at least with the 4cyl engines there's a lifetime warranty if you can get the company to replace the junk engine, but unless the 3.3 falls under the 10/100 warranty you're looking at $9-$10 grand to do a replcement with a used junk unit.
Did some meditating from the engine building days of years ago, and thought of this.
Will try and make it simple:
When a normal engine is running, the rod bearing clearance at the crank, is, let's say .002" and when going through the piston cycle over thousands of miles, the cylinder walls wear ever so slightly, normal occurence.
Now, that cylinder wall wear stops when the piston reaches the top of the stroke and the heads downward.
The very top of the cylinder sees no wear and that is called the piston ridge. Example, when the piston comes to the top, there is an unused portion of the cylinder that has no wear. So, through the cycle, the cylinders wear and there is a ridge at the top.
Now, when the engine develops a rod knock, in layman's terms, the coating on the rod bearing wears off and with the additional clearance, the rod knock develops when the piston changes direction.
Hope we got this scenario as here comes the reasoning for the broken compression rings.
As the rod bearing clearance has grown indicated by the knock, the travel of the piston will be greater as it goes through the cycle, and as the upward travel is longer, even a few thousands of an inch, the compression ring makes contact with the piston ridge at the top and the ring breaks.
I say that if #4 has no compression, the rod bearing on #4 is gone and that is the problem, additional piston travel. Additional clearance, longer piston stroke, ring hits piston ridge, breaks compression ring.
Wish you were local, I'd talk with them, but show them this and have them install another engine.
They didn't say why the rings broke. Kia is saying the knock sensor can be initiated by other engine noise other then the connective rod bearing and saying this issue with the cylinder 4 does not fit their "campaign" for engine replacement at their cost. I am not done but it is aggrivating that there is nothing I could have done to cause this engine issue - so they should just acknowledge its defective and replace it.
I was thinking of paying the dealership to drop the oil pan to see if there are any metal fragments from the connective rod bearings - if that proves that is the problem then they will review that - do you think that would work?
That's the rod knock.
Just wrote why the compression ring fractured.
If you can trust them. Present the explanation I wrote and see their reply, then you can make a determination how to procede, and what their
decision would be when they find the rod bearing shot.
I believe I understand...since the rod has more play its making the piston hit the cylinder wall incorrectly ?? (I am not great at how engines work ....but trying).
The problem I have is kia is sticking with the fact they have declined engine replacement and unless i provide more proof to have them consider addition facts they won't change their mind. Would I have to pay to have the engine torn down to prove/see this?
I am very upset that they will just not stand behind their engine and realize it is defective.
The dealership says their job is to present results "only" from what kia is asking for - they do not add their opinion or thoughts and decision is from kia. If I show them the connective rod is the issue (if I can prove it) they will replace the engine (unless they try to find another way out). I would have to pay to do any more diagnostic work to prove this....I believe this is the issue - can I prove it? I know their engine is defective - they should stand behind them and make it right....not make the customer jump through hoops.
I believe I understand...since the rod has more play its making the piston ring hit the ridge at the top of the cylinder.
Talk to them first about the broken compression ring and reasoning behind that, destroyed #4 rod bearing, but if they won't bend, before going forward
I would speak with the district service manager and explain the situation. Tell him or her you need someone that can understand why the compression
ring fractured on an otherwise perfectly running engine at 65k miles.
Last resort would be to remove the oil pan and check #4 rod bearing, if bearing shot. which I'm saying it must be, that is the primary reason for the engine problem.
As you have an understanding of the compression ring fracture, thought I'd offer a little insight into why the rod knock. This way you'll be well armed
when dealing with Kia.
The connecting rod has 2 bearing halves that when secured to the crankshaft, the bearings encircle the crankshaft journal. Now one might think that
as they are bearings they ride on the crankshaft, not true. They actually ride on an oil film that is supplied by the oil pump, and here comes the problem.
These engines were destined for failure from the get-go as flaws in design allows the cylinders to distort, abnormal cylinder wall & piston ring wear.
When this wear occurs, the, let's say shavings, fall into the oil pan and the mixture of oil along with the shavings is drawn into the oil pump through
an oil pickup tube. Over a period of time, the oil pump becomes clogged from the shavings and end result, no lubrication to the engine. When this
occurs, the oil film disappears, bearing makes contact with the crankshaft, the coating on the bearing is worn away quickly and with the additional
clearance comes the rod knock. If the engine were to continue to run, seizure would come shortly as the bearings or other parts expand and seize
solid.
Call Kia Corporate Customer service at (800) 333-4542. You will get a person. Briefly state your problem, and ask for a "Case Number" to be assigned. This immediately gets their attention, because they know you intend to pursue it. Depending upon the response you get, advise your dealer that you have opened Case Number XXXXXXXX )it will be an 8-digit number) with Kia corporate and intend to contact your state attorney general, the Consumer Protection Agency, and the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA). Also check out this website for instructions on filing complaints with these agencies: Filing a Consumer Complaint | USAGov. Based on my own recent experience with a year-long stalling problem on a 2019 Optima S, I promise you this will get results.
BVC
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Kia already has a lawsuit in Canada for recall indifference they know they put bad engines on the market so you can join the law suit against them and see how you fair or make your own lawsuit against them and take them to court your self for failing to honor your warranty I had this same thing happen to mine at around 95,000 miles and they replace my engine with no hesitation but they had it well over 3 months too hope this helps
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