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The Water Methanol Injection Thread

50K views 120 replies 36 participants last post by  Philhaus 
#1 ·
For anyone who wants to know how our 2.0 and 2.4ltr engines run on Meth injection.

This is the thread to discuss it.



Direct Injections main negative effect is carbon buildup, sludge in your intake manifold, deposits on the valves, buildup in your engine overall. Carbon deposits can and will chip off. Ending up clogging your oil feed line to your turbo starving it of lubrication. Causing detonation. Lowering fuel octane and robbing performance overall.

Water/Methanol mixed and injected into the intake manifold - Pressure washes EVERYTHING clean. But it also cools everything and increases octane. When the water/meth contacts hot engine parts it whisks away heat when it evaporates.


Making it the perfect solution for DI engines - Especially turbo charged and tuned vehicles!!!!!!!!


AEM WMI + Full bolt ons and non-aggressive custom tune
13.3@108mph

Smooth as butter!


Q's Comments??
 
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#7 · (Edited)
Coming from the BMW community there are a lot of pros and cons to methanol injection. One the biggest reasons to use methanol injection is for when your fueling system cannot keep up with the demand for fuel the vehicle is requiring to cool the cylinders. The first resort is to upgrade the fueling system to meet the demands. Methanol injection should only be a second resort if the limits of the fueling system cannot be increased. With the proper fueling the engine will control heat dispersion all on its own. As cylinder gets too hot more fuel is added. That additional fuel is not combusted but vaporized to cool the cylinder. This is exactly what adding methanol injection does. It's a cooling feature and should not be looked at as an additional octane source. The one thing that methanol does very well is control IATs. For more consistent power on back to back WOT runs methanol does a great job controlling IATs. With that said a car should never be tuned to run methanol as added octane. This can be very very dangerous. If the controller fails or a nozzle clogs it could be catastrophic. Also on the other end if the injection gets stuck open it can quench the engine, and even worse, hydo lock the engine. I have seen proof of this happening. Another down side to meth is fires. With proper system and line maintenance they can be avoided but they do happen. Definitely stay from kits that use the windshield washer reservoir as a meth tank as this is extremely dangerous. Why these kits are usually very cheap in price the risk is not worth it. Be smart... put it in the trunk away from any radiant heat source.

In my opinion this platform has not been pushed hard enough to warrant meth injection. With the lack of proper tuning I don't believe anyone has found the ceiling of our fueling systems. If members were running 300+hp on fully modified cars and wanting to push more than I could see the need. But just adding meth to a car that well inside it's limits is not the smartest idea. I would rather see someone experiment with e85 blends before adding meth injection. But again lack of tuning is also preventing e85 as an alternative as well.

This is just my $.02 from what I have experienced on a different platform. And from what I experienced with the BMW community one of the best systems out is the Auquamist HFS4-v3. As it is one of the more expensive kits it is by far the best. It interprets a variety of signals to control meth flow where other kits use mainly one. 806-065 ---- HFS4-v3 system for DI engines - aquamist-direct.com

I hope this does not come off as if I am not bashing this idea. I just think at this point in this platform's performance evolution I don't believe it warrants meth injection.
 
#97 ·
Lots of misinformation there.

Your windshield washer reservoir holds washer fluid made up of 7:3 parts water/methanol. So why on earth would you stay clear of kits utilizing this larger more robust holding tank that is already in the car?

How is it that you'VE concluded that the injection does NOT increase the octane of your pump gas?

And lastly, implementing these kits had proven +70wtq on a stock mustang ecoboost WITHOUT tuning the car at all. If that sounds dangerous to you, then you probably need to do more research.

There are risk vs reward for everything, even installing LED lights where it's not meant to have one. That's what ppl consider before changing anything on a vehicle. But the details in your post looks like it was copied and pasted from a 1999 post when little was known by enthusiasts.

At this point, OEM's are considering adding a supplimental port fuel injection to factory DI cars, WHY, because alcohol/methanol/ethonal increases octane and offers performance, Emmissions and increased life of the engine.

So please, research and gather real facts before u pass judgement on "windshield washer fluid injection systems" they aren't as scary as some might think.....and offer mostly benefits with properly installed system
 
#8 ·
Ran meth on a few of my Audi's/BMW's. I have ran the Snow Performance stage 2 on most of them. But, my tunes allowed me to tune properly for it.

I am a fan of meth. When I lived in Denver I was able to use -20 degree windshield washer fluid as meth. 2 bucks for a gallon was awesome. Then I moved back to cali and they do not sell it here so I had to mix my own meth and it go more expensive.

Many benefits of running meth properly. I was able to gain a lot more WHP when running it on pump gas.
 
#15 ·
Ran meth on a few of my Audi's/BMW's. I have ran the Snow Performance stage 2 on most of them. But, my tunes allowed me to tune properly for it.

I am a fan of meth. When I lived in Denver I was able to use -20 degree windshield washer fluid as meth. 2 bucks for a gallon was awesome. Then I moved back to cali and they do not sell it here so I had to mix my own meth and it go more expensive.

Many benefits of running meth properly. I was able to gain a lot more WHP when running it on pump gas.
And here I was thinking all these years that running a "meth lab" was illegal!?!?! ROFLMAO!!!!
 
#13 · (Edited)
We installed an AEM WMI kit on Isaac's 2013 K5.

The only Con about WMI is having a properly functioning failsafe that works. There is only one kit that can do that on the market without some reverse engineering.

But the performance nuts out there will love it ;) 13.3 @ 107.75 on a non-aggressive tune!!! There will be much to be gained even from those low ET's.


This platform is about to take off .......
 
#14 ·
Any diy guides on install yet for us??
 
#19 ·
LOL, it's been done. We have 5 members on our facebook group who are scheduled to be custom tuned on WMI kits already.

But yes, Isaac had amazing results with his setup. He was the first to do it and produce/post results.

I'm working with Aquamist to see if we can use their kit to effectively implement a failsafe. I drive a lot more than Isaac does. His car can be down for extended periods in time while mine needs to take me to the office daily ;) So, I "NEED/WANT" an effective failsafe setup that can cut boost should anything fail to work 100% which is the main downside or complaint people have with WMI kits.

Another reason why Aquamist is the #1 kit IMO. It's much smarter than other kits. A progressive pump + a boost on off switch isn't very "intuitive" to be able to deliver a precise map of WM mix to match load/boost. Aquamist literally translates 4 input signals in high def to precisely match our OEM fueling at any given point. So you can literally just add to the target Lambda % and you're good to go in terms of fueling tuning.
 
#18 ·
Paul a member on here Isaac has it installed on his car...so far the quickest optima on the track
 
#21 ·
No problem, Paul. I don't believe I have made your acquaintance yet!

Me and Will shoot the ish every now and again, but I didn't know he had a guy working for him. Very cool, I see he's on the up and up which is great seeing Optima performance vendors growing.


Any vendors wanting to assist in our efforts to figure out this platform - Please contact me with any parts you may have that you believe would be beneficial - but more so, we NEED parts manufactured. There is a whole list of items that I've had to source via other platforms and some items I have yet to source which would be extremely helpful to this platform.

So if you're willing to lend a helping hand, parts or fabrication needs please contact me.


As these cars move down the track faster, they also need supporting parts to insure they hold together and some items to help us bring down those times.

Just throwing that out there.
 
#22 ·
As always! That's our goal, to help the optima platform grow and we are always willing to help or contribute to new and upcoming ideas (I still can't believe the optima is where it is compared to about 4 years ago).
I'm actually pwice, veteran to the forums :)
Will will be making a formal announcement sometime this week about me joining the Karbon Koncepts team. I'm super excited

Sent from AutoGuide.com App
 
#29 · (Edited)
What I would use the P2R spacer for???

That's about the perfect spacing you want with a Water/Meth nozzle install. The small area left above the nozzle promotes atomization.

I'll have a full P2R spacer install, routing for BOV, full meth kit install with details to come this week. Keep an eye on my build thread. Got some WMI results to share w/o a custom tune for it ;)



Close up of the P2R spacer - I drilled with 11/36" bit lube with WD40 and then tapped with 1/8" NTP again lube with WD40.
 
#32 ·
I thought P2R spacer already comes tapped with 2 holes? Did you tap an existing hole or did you make a new hole?


What I would use the P2R spacer for???

That's about the perfect spacing you want with a Water/Meth nozzle install. The small area left above the nozzle promotes atomization.

I'll have a full P2R spacer install, routing for BOV, full meth kit install with details to come this week. Keep an eye on my build thread. Got some WMI results to share w/o a custom tune for it ;)



Close up of the P2R spacer - I drilled with 11/36" bit lube with WD40 and then tapped with 1/8" NTP again lube with WD40.
 
#31 ·
For anyone who wants to know how our 2.0 and 2.4ltr engines run on Meth injection.

This is the thread to discuss it.



Direct Injections main negative effect is carbon buildup, sludge in your intake manifold, deposits on the valves, buildup in your engine overall. Carbon deposits can and will chip off. Ending up clogging your oil feed line to your turbo starving it of lubrication. Causing detonation. Lowering fuel octane and robbing performance overall.

Water/Methanol mixed and injected into the intake manifold - Pressure washes EVERYTHING clean. But it also cools everything and increases octane. When the water/meth contacts hot engine parts it whisks away heat when it evaporates.


Making it the perfect solution for DI engines - Especially turbo charged and tuned vehicles!!!!!!!!


AEM WMI + Full bolt ons and non-aggressive custom tune
13.3@108mph

Smooth as butter!


Q's Comments??



Added 7/21/14 - Below is my diagram for WMI failsafe
 
#34 ·
While on the subject here, I installed a WMI pump pre-filter between the tank and pump this past weekend. It's just like the one found on AEM's website, however I purchased it off Ebay w/o the AEM logo for like 7.00+ I had to buy two 1/4" ID Nickel plated brass push to connect straight fittings for each side of the filter hosing.

This helps prevent any particulate which came out of your bottle. Floaties if you will that can mess up your pump and/or clog your nozzle.
 
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